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SallyJ
Member
Posts: 435

About 13 stepping and Crime in AA.

Here you can have discussions and offer support.

No trolling or bashing here please.

November 1, 2011 at 12:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

gigi
Member
Posts: 6

Thanks for the article Sally.  If only it could be made available to everyone who walks into a meeting for the first time...

November 1, 2011 at 4:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Hyacinth
Member
Posts: 31

Sally, I have mentioned this before, but my own version of 13 stepping involved being offered money for sex.  I would imagine that young women who go to AA might be desperate for a drink/whatever and short of money.  A certain amount of money was offered for a specific sexual act.  Which said to me that it was not the first time.  I only went to meetings for 4 months in 2007. 

November 2, 2011 at 3:09 AM Flag Quote & Reply

SallyJ
Member
Posts: 435

Gigi, yeah - like you said, it would be nice if people knew the truth before they went to a meeting. Or at least upon arrival at their first one.  And officially, like, without having to depend on other people in the group to warn you. 

Massive tried for a couple of years to have warning pamphlets available in meetings and actually met resistance. I encourage people to notify her if they still go to meetings and want to hand out pamphlets and help spread the word.

 

Hyacinth, No - I didn't know that you went through that specifically.  that's big time sexual harassment!  Shit, that's a john soliciting you for prostitution.  This is in the U.S. but check out the following article:

http://www.wlbt.com/story/13943997/operation-hoppin-john-targets-solicitation  "Operation Hoppin John" targets solicitation

They probably don't even realize that all they have to do is attend some of the shadier meetings to catch these sickos.

 

November 2, 2011 at 11:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

????
Member
Posts: 28

Very good article and covers most things that happen.  Very little is done about the problem, infact at my old home group there used to be a really seedy, predatory old homosexual with about 20 years who was a sponsorship co ordinatior which meant he was supposed to help the newcomer men find a sponsor. He used to try and sponsor any good looking ones himself and they would all sit around him in meetings and he would put his hand on their leg or kiss them at the end. He was also the strereotypical old timer shifting in his seat when anyone strayed from the party This particular member has died and I believe the meeting has changed a bit since my time but it always attracted the young and vulnerable because it had a beginners meeting with it.

Someone else wrote about that meeting and how it affected them here. here http://aacultwatch.co.uk/paul.aspx

AA is also regarded as a pickup place in my area for people outside the fellowship. I overheard some men talking at work about it after Amy Winehouse had died saying they should go as it is a place to pick up damaged model types. They were refering to a specific meeting on a Sunday which I knew about. This does not surprise me as there is so much gossip in the coffee shops in trendy areas especially if a celeb is present.

The traditions of AA were set up to protect those in the Midwest of America in the 1930's and are not relevant in large city meetings today. We have the problem of more people needing help at a younger age because of the availability of hard drugs to all compared to the past and the changing in social conditions. Rules have changed in all areas of life in areas of health and safety but AA seems to just be able to carry on regardless with no safeguard in place.



November 4, 2011 at 5:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Doctor Black
Member
Posts: 23

An individual I knew was told by his sponsor, upon acquiring a year of sobriety, to "Find a woman and fuck her." Presumably the most straightforward opportunities were in his groups. I've often wondered if the injunction to become sexually active was a standard part of some sponsorship lineages and  was literally treated as a "13th step." 

September 10, 2012 at 7:13 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SallyJ
Member
Posts: 435

I noticed that members are well aware of the 13th stepping problem. A lot of women I knew would rush to newcomer women to try and greet/warn them. Especially if guys were trying to interact with them. There have also been long shares about the "vultures" that come to meetings to pick up the vulnerable members. This lead to entire meetings about 13 stepping. The concern of these meetings/members was great, it opened up eyes and raised awareness. It also tells me that the problem is vast and well known. IMO it shouldn't be left up to some members to warn or protect others. What if they aren't there that day or are tired? Also, it still continued in my area. Abuse occurred, varying to which kinds.

 

September 11, 2012 at 1:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

bitter
Member
Posts: 335

I don't trust any old-timers...

September 16, 2012 at 5:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

kelly
Member
Posts: 59

The old timers are sicker than most.  Why would anyone with 20 years clean call himself an addict?  That makes no sense!  I looked around and saw I had a better life than 99% of the people in any meeting I attended.  I still had a family, and a good marriage now that my addiction was behind me.  The people who keep going to meetings have problems:  psychiatric, or financial, or relationship.  They lean on other damaged people for support, and I didn't want that.

It boogled my mind to hear a 10 yr sober AA lady say, "I needed a meeting today".  I heard that at 15 months and I thought, "I don't want to need a meeting at 10 yrs".  The  next time I thought I needed a meeting, I came home instead and cooked.  I wanted to be self reliant.

Self reliance is discouraged in AA. How many times did my sponsor tell me, before I gave a talk or took a token, to speak from the heart.  I always wanted to take notecards with me, and I sometimes did.  I said her way is winging it, and I want to be prepared..  In AA, everything you say is supposed to come from God's power within you, so you can just blab and blab and say that was how it was supposed to be.  WTF?

September 16, 2012 at 7:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Pennywise
Member
Posts: 126

kelly at September 16, 2012 at 7:38 PM

The old timers are sicker than most.  Why would anyone with 20 years clean call himself an addict?  That makes no sense!  I looked around and saw I had a better life than 99% of the people in any meeting I attended.  I still had a family, and a good marriage now that my addiction was behind me.  The people who keep going to meetings have problems:  psychiatric, or financial, or relationship.  They lean on other damaged people for support, and I didn't want that.

It boogled my mind to hear a 10 yr sober AA lady say, "I needed a meeting today".  I heard that at 15 months and I thought, "I don't want to need a meeting at 10 yrs".  The  next time I thought I needed a meeting, I came home instead and cooked.  I wanted to be self reliant.

Self reliance is discouraged in AA. How many times did my sponsor tell me, before I gave a talk or took a token, to speak from the heart.  I always wanted to take notecards with me, and I sometimes did.  I said her way is winging it, and I want to be prepared..  In AA, everything you say is supposed to come from God's power within you, so you can just blab and blab and say that was how it was supposed to be.  WTF?

All the gurus prepare for their shares.  They just don't need note cards because they've said the same exact speeches hundreds of times before. It might look impromptu, but it's scripted.  

September 16, 2012 at 7:50 PM Flag Quote & Reply

bitter
Member
Posts: 335

I also noticed these so-called recovered old-timers acting like addicts saying they need meetings more & more. Swapped one addiction for another 

September 22, 2012 at 6:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Live_free_or_die
Administrator
Posts: 851

Is 13th Stepping Condoned in AA?

 

 

Consider Bill W, the original 13 stepper. The early AA'ers established a "founder's watch committee" in an attempt to thwart the salacious, concupiscent, goatish, horny, hot, hypersexual, itchy, lascivious, lecherous, lewd, libidinous, licentious, lubricious (or lubricous), oversexed, passionate, randy, lustful, satyric, wanton sexual desires of Bill W.

 

 

And don't forget the infamous Clancy Imislund of the Pacific Group.

 

 

Oh, and Mike Q (Quinones) of the Midtwon Group and his cronies.

http://syddv.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=post&thread=1&;...

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher/2007/08/aa_renegade_dieswhither...

 

 

--

Pro Empowerment - Engage & Enable


October 20, 2012 at 7:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

bitter
Member
Posts: 335

Mention this aspect of Wilson to oldtimer steppers & they will brush it off as one of Wilsons quirks, nothing as to the unfortunate women he manipulated 7 abused.

October 20, 2012 at 8:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Live_free_or_die
Administrator
Posts: 851

The continued allowance by AANY of violent criminals and sexual predators to be sentenced to AA and attend AA meetings in an anonymous fashion is just one of many indications that AANY & the AA Fellowship is devoid of morals and ethics. AANY's stance on this abhorrent situation is unacceptable in my opinion.

 

I mean, allowing these types of people to attend AA meetings anonymously is like setting a child free to ransack a candy store.

--

Pro Empowerment - Engage & Enable


October 21, 2012 at 10:10 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Starmom
Member
Posts: 319

Live_free_or_die at October 21, 2012 at 10:10 AM

The continued allowance by AANY of violent criminals and sexual predators to be sentenced to AA and attend AA meetings in an anonymous fashion is just one of many indications that AANY & the AA Fellowship is devoid of morals and ethics. AANY's stance on this abhorrent situation is unacceptable in my opinion.

 

I mean, allowing these types of people to attend AA meetings anonymously is like setting a child free to ransack a candy store.

In a previous city, all I ever saw of this "trend" was numerous "youngsters" who opted for AA/NA instead of jail time for relatively minor offenses such as DUI.  I did notice, though, the approach the kids had was that they "got away with" something.  Some went as far as to have other people sign their papers so they didn't even have to attend the meetings.  

In this city, however, I was stunned to see how many of the "nice old guys" from the meetings were on the state's sex-offender registry.  None of them ever bothered me, though.  

October 21, 2012 at 1:27 PM Flag Quote & Reply

CritiCoolThinking
Member
Posts: 203

i have also seen people make false accusations to manipulate and misdirect the valid anger that people have about the 13th step - to slander and even physically attack an innocent member - because they or their gang is biased against some innocent member - and/or  to use a false accusation as a false excuse to blame someone else when they relapse. i have seen whole fellowships turn into dangerous mindless mobs. please be careful when you support accusations.

October 21, 2012 at 6:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Starmom
Member
Posts: 319

CritiCoolThinking at October 21, 2012 at 6:25 PM

i have also seen people make false accusations to manipulate and misdirect the valid anger that people have about the 13th step - to slander and even physically attack an innocent member - because they or their gang is biased against some innocent member - and/or  to use a false accusation as a false excuse to blame someone else when they relapse. i have seen whole fellowships turn into dangerous mindless mobs. please be careful when you support accusations.

Could you possibly word all that a little clearer?  I'm not exactly sure what you are saying.

October 21, 2012 at 8:44 PM Flag Quote & Reply

dorak nob
Member
Posts: 100

in my area 95 percent of meetings were men, i guess the women had their own meeting and were hip to drooling men of AA, you take away the drugs and booze what's left? sex.

October 21, 2012 at 9:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

CritiCoolThinking
Member
Posts: 203

i have seen people in the program lie  - about many things - including the 13th step -  to manufacture a false excuse for a relapse - and to provoke violence - and to slander people they do not like.

be careful - verify the truth before you judge and promote a here say accusation. i have seen people react and get very angry at innocent people with out verifying the truth first.

October 21, 2012 at 9:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Starmom
Member
Posts: 319

CritiCoolThinking at October 21, 2012 at 9:56 PM

i have seen people in the program lie  - about many things - including the 13th step -  to manufacture a false excuse for a relapse - and to provoke violence - and to slander people they do not like.

be careful - verify the truth before you judge and promote a here say accusation. i have seen people react and get very angry at innocent people with out verifying the truth first.

what you said here is valid-  but not only in terms of 13th-steps but all the lying that goes on in general, too.  there's much destruction based on lies.  

October 22, 2012 at 12:59 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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