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Forum Home > The 13th Step and Crime > 13 Stepping AA Grapevine Article

JR Harris

Posts: 246

The August 2009 AA Grapevine publication and the article entitled “Safe Haven” or more specifically “Safe Haven, Keeping the rooms free of predation: Whose responsibility is it?” was written by someone identified as M.P. and appears to be the only AA corporate literature talking about whose responsibility 13 Stepping and predators is in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. The article is identified in the Grapevine digital archives as:


“Idaho — How safe is your AA meeting? Have you ever personally not felt safe? Have you ever had someone give you a hug and walked away with an uncomfortable feeling? ”


This article was covered by Stinkin' Thinkin' at:


http://stinkin-thinkin.com/2009/09/07/2104/


Just a little AA history to remember, I have heard that Robin Bromley the president of Alcoholics Anonymous Grapevine, Inc may have been let go. Do you think that articles like this could have anything to do with it?

 

November 12, 2011 at 9:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SallyJ
Member
Posts: 435

JR, thanks for posting this and providing the link. I had not seen this piece yet.

 

Every time I see more evidence my anger rises again.

 

If there was actually nothing else wrong with the alcoholics anonymous program (spiritual abuse, sponsor abuse, control issues, scare tactics), I STILL COULD NOT ADVOCATE IT because of the sexual abuse!

 

I am going to link the piece mentioned here to the 13 Step article.

 

Also, there is a 7 page interior document that got leaked from AA corporate. It’s floating around the net. I also want to link that evidence to my article as well as post a link here (and take a frickin screen shot less it disappear).

 

Do you have it handy by chance? Otherwise I'll dig.

 

Btw, I also want to mention that women who have been sexually traumatized in there past are more likely to be 13 stepped/abused later in life. This is NOT because they are unlucky or not decent. Victims develop a sense of vulnerability that perpetrators can detect. It is not their fault.

 

Also, in a sick defense, AA advocates and two hatters tend to tell victims of 13 stepping that as a victim they are more sensitive to this issue and it isn't actually a big problem (gaslighting).  For whatever insane reasons they want to protect the sacred program that sucks anyway.  Imagine, covering up crime and sexual abuse!!  And for what?  If AA works, protection and stricter guidelines will not hinder their recovery.  Would it not be easier to stay clean if you weren't in fear of being abused????

 

I would like to reiterate that it is not the victims fault and they are NOT making a production out of nothing.  I encourage any victims to reach out for help.

 

Even though I am furious again JR, I still thank you for posting this.

 

PS. Yes, I think it is likely that Robin was excused from her position because of this. There have been death threats because people are trying to expose AA. In comparison, getting fired is nothing.

--

Pro Empowerment!

November 12, 2011 at 11:24 PM Flag Quote & Reply

CarolynK
Member
Posts: 64

Sally & JR,

Thank you for all the info, good job. Sally I need a copy of the internal when you find it. 

My sponsor told me I was hyper sensitive to the "Advances" and said, "Now you know not to come back to this meeting". No talk or resolution; just don't go back. It's an accepted practice of civil rights violation that AA and it members coverup! This is against the law. Coverup=abstruction of justice. Sexual assault, battery or harassment  are  illegal. YES, even in AA meetings.

I will NEVER accept: 1) Having my Civil Rights violated, while AA gives the predators excuses and permission to continue

2) I will not ALLOW someone else to determine  my boundaries. I have ULTIMATE SAY who will or will NOT touch me and how. I am not a human Pinata for men. I was given that right being born in the USA under our Constitution, Civil Rights, Political Rights, Bill of Rights, the Amendaments and my State Constitution.

3) I will not allow someone in the position of power abuse or take advantage of me-it is against the law (Abuse of Power etc.).

4) I will never stop fighting for my rights as a woman, person and individual.


The first secretary of my ex meeting was a male Attorney, I reported every sexual harassment/assault to him. I even cited the meeting was illegal in allowing a hostile learning environment. He assured me (not) that AA meetings weren't included. That particular law was applicable for shools and possibly work only. I  had an instructor in college removed for sexual harassment, I'm very familiar with that law. He wasn't pulling the wool over my eyes. In fact, they opened very wide that day; he wasn't protecting me like he said he was. He was placating me while saving the meeting and his own ass (I had warned him of his oath and involvement in this coverup).  He was just as bad and responsible as the criminals.

Women accused me of wanting the attention (I believe they were projecting). Dare I say ,I have accomplished many things in my life that I rather be recognized than being assaulted at AA meetings and under going a "Witch Hunt" at the committee meeting;  isn't one I would chose to be awarded that distinction.

This gets my dander UP every time!!!  Man, I would love to stand at the top of the AAWS building shouting at the top of my lungs; run for your life-that's what is at stake. Keep your kids away.......I could go on and on. 

Damn my dander has dander on top of dander that's up!

I'm curoius to the where abouts of Robin Bromley and if she is involved in AA , slipped out of sight or has come to our side?


DANDER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!

November 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SallyJ
Member
Posts: 435

You have every right to demand respect concerning your physical boundaries.  In the real world this right is supported.

 

It is only in AA/NA and similar 12 step groups that you are treated as being stuck up, strange, and criticized as wanting to be"unique", if you don’t want your ass grabbed.  It’s like trying to communicate with Martians. 

 

If Hilary Clinton went to an AA meeting and had her breasts touched by a strange man would the world find her complaints inapropriate? 

November 14, 2011 at 9:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sue
Member
Posts: 86

I dont think Hilary would have that particular problem at a meeting. :)  However, her personality would definitely not fit in.

November 14, 2011 at 10:14 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SallyJ
Member
Posts: 435

Hmmmm.  Susan Sarandon?

 

 

--

Pro Empowerment!

November 14, 2011 at 11:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sue
Member
Posts: 86

Dolly Parton better stay away from AA.

--


November 14, 2011 at 11:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SallyJ
Member
Posts: 435

Carolyn,

 

Here is the link: http://stinkin-thinkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/ATTACHMENT_TO_TOPIC_002-PREDATORS.doc.pdf

 

I also saved the original to my pc.  All of my documents will be available for public viewing and saving in my dropbox.  If there is something I have, just let me know.

 

November 15, 2011 at 1:34 PM Flag Quote & Reply

CarolynK
Member
Posts: 64

Sally,

Thank you very much. Anything you come across, please send my way. b/t/w what happen to gunthar and threats?

Celebrities are treated special and they also have the luxury of  body guards. Hillary, Dolly or Susan would NOT attend a run of the mill meeting. They have prefferential treatment. Can you imagine a sponsor telling them "keep it simple stupid, your best thinking got you here and, my all time favorite, don't make any decisions without calling me first". Can you imagine someone trying to shun Julia Roberts.....it's a whole different ball game for the rich and famous!!! If someone were to have assaulted Julia (like I was) everyone would be involved from identifying the perp to tackling him until the police arrived. None of this crap of anonymity or no squeeling would be applicable. Those boys would be squeeling so fast and loud for Julia! Again, it's their privates that are doing all the thinking.........of course the EGO is hugely involved. blah, blah, blah, blah:P

November 15, 2011 at 6:13 PM Flag Quote & Reply

AtheisticallyYours
Member
Posts: 7

There is a way to end "13th Stepping"! Its called a CELL PHONE CAMERA (since everyone seems to have one nowadays!). All you have to do is TAKE A PICTURE AT THE MEETING of a KNOWN "13th Stepper", and post it on THIS SITE (with the meeting location that they engaged in the PREDATORY 13th Stepping at!), with a VERY LARGE WARNING TO THE WORLD of who they are, what they do, and have done! Before long either: a.) the meeting will have vaporized to no one (due to the cell phone cameras!), or b.) the "13th Stepper" will have "disappeared" due to having been "outed" for being the predator he is! (Then again-if a meeting location gets "advertised" as being where a "13th Stepper operates", the others like him may very well begin "congregating" at that meeting!). Worth an experiment if nothing else.

September 3, 2012 at 5:40 PM Flag Quote & Reply

JR Harris

Posts: 246

AtheisticallyYours at September 3, 2012 at 5:40 PM

There is a way to end "13th Stepping"! Its called a CELL PHONE CAMERA (since everyone seems to have one nowadays!). All you have to do is TAKE A PICTURE AT THE MEETING of a KNOWN "13th Stepper", and post it on THIS SITE (with the meeting location that they engaged in the PREDATORY 13th Stepping at!), with a VERY LARGE WARNING TO THE WORLD of who they are, what they do, and have done! Before long either: a.) the meeting will have vaporized to no one (due to the cell phone cameras!), or b.) the "13th Stepper" will have "disappeared" due to having been "outed" for being the predator he is! (Then again-if a meeting location gets "advertised" as being where a "13th Stepper operates", the others like him may very well begin "congregating" at that meeting!). Worth an experiment if nothing else.

Actually those actions in themselves could be considered "predatory" in themselves. It is one thing to post arrest and court reports on an individual and then link them to the covens they hide in. It is another thing to pick and chose someone you believe is a predator and expose them on an open forum. That could be considered harassment. When a predator is arrested at an AA meeting or mandated to AA meetings, the highlighting of the meetings they may attend can be considered a public service.


By highlighting the AA Service Area, District and meetings on a post related to a sexual predator being mandated in the rooms, or caught in the rooms you are just relaying vital information for public safety reasons. It also makes it very hard for coven members to say "it doesn't happen in my group" and you can prove to them it happened in a group near them.

September 3, 2012 at 6:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SallyJ
Member
Posts: 435

When it comes to predators or criminals sentenced there is no shame in spreading the word. I see that letting the landlords (churches) of area meetings know that criminals are congegrating, as a positive action. It isn't a statement or a request, it's a warning.

 

I've noticed a lot of sentencing where the sentenced is supposed to stay away from young people. Yet the rooms have young people, AA solicits teens and has a pamphlet welcoming them, making suggestions. What I don't see is any enforcement by the judges or anyone else tha they don't comply. They even send 'em. Eeek.

September 8, 2012 at 11:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Gunthar2000

Posts: 127

@ CarolynK...

Those threats were a long time ago. Someone on craigslist who called himself KingKnightTrain was posting veiled threats suggesting that murder for hire was his profession, and also suggesting that he was coming to the east coast to take care of some important business. He posted, several times, that "Gunthar should be put out of his mysery." There were many similar posts, and for a while, I was becoming concerned about my safety. I even stopped posting for a while because of these threats. Later on, the perpetrator came clean with a new handle "shinzan" and apoligized for his behavior. I have since stopped posting on craigslist altogether.

September 8, 2012 at 1:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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